Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvolvo
This is exactly the info i needed ThankYou. I am crossing my fingers for some luck as i was talking to a old retired diesel specialist yesterday and he claims he still has all the tools FOR SALE 
Fingers crossed he comes back this weekend and im on the right path
Mick |
Good news.
Just be sure the stuff you get is relevant to the 5 and 6 cylinder diesel (as used in Audi cars, VW LT heavy trucks, and Volvo cars, but NOT in small VW cars such as Golf, Passat, Jetta). Again you want to watch out for people who may be confused and think the 4 cylinder stuff is what you are looking for, since although the techniques for those engines are similar in principle they use mostly different equipment for the timing jobs. As noted above, there are a couple of things in the 4-cylinder "kit" that will be useful (cam locking bar and the IP dial indicator/holder/rod), but the rest of the tools for the 4cyl would not be useful to you on a Volvo, and more importantly it would lack some things you do need.
However, if he really does have the correct 6cyl stuff then you've lucked out as this is the best/easiest way to get hands on the tools in one shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8volvo
the prayers are always ignored.  |
For the sake of accurate info in this sticky thread, I realized I should have clarified this statement a little more. It's not necessarily true that the so-called mark-and-pray method could "never" work. There is always the theoretical chance that the cam and IP timing happens to land in the correct range by pure lucky accident (or successful prayers??).
Also, for someone who knows EXACTLY what/how/why they are doing, AND who is using several of the special tools/techniques to thoroughly check their work before and after, it is possible to do certain repair procedures without stepping through the entire full timing system disassembly/re-timing process. Examples of this are replacement of the front timing belt idler pulley and of the water pump in cases where the timing belt is not yet due to be replaced and is being retained. Many of us here have done those procedures carefully but successfully with the help of paint marks and the like, and managed to save a little bit of time on the job in the end.
**HOWEVER, to achieve success with those methods, one has to also check IP-to-crank timing before disassembly using the dial indicator, and then re-check it after reassembly, confirming it is exactly the same. AND one must be fully prepared and equipped to continue through the full re-timing process IF the timing ends up at all different. Therefore it doesn't save you from still needing to have all the tools on hand and needing to be ready and able to use them, and it doesn't make the work any simpler. To the contrary you need *more* experience and knowledge of the standard procedure to be able to use alternative procedures without jeopardizing the engine. You do it to speed up your work a little bit while reaching the same confirmed result, NOT because you don't have the equipment/technique and are seeking to cut corners that could compromise the result.
Nonetheless, if you do it right, it's a viable practice. But the key is realizing that to safely go off-script with timing work is HARDER and more demanding of skill and nuance, not less. The issue is that most of the time in the real world, the folks trying to cut corners are the same folks who have little or no experience / no interest in learning, and therefore don't actually understand the standard methods, nor the underlying reasons for those methods, nor the risks they are taking in deviating from those methods, incorrectly believing it will make the job easier. Lack of understanding + "alternative techniques" = where we see big problems occur, over and over again.
The folks recommending or practicing the "just mark it up and go" attitude are the ones that fall in this last category and are the most serious troublemakers. (and who often create plenty of trouble for themselves too, when they bugger up the job and create problems they cannot solve despite a customer's reasonable expectations that they do so!)
For someone going through the timing job for the first time, it is NEVER a good idea to attempt anything besides the full standard method, using the full set of tools detailed in this thread or appropriate substitutes for those tools.