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-   -   What parts to order for cylinder head installation? (http://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=2251)

Echo1975 04-20-2022 01:28 PM

What parts to order for cylinder head installation?
 
I am putting on a new head for my motor and need someone to give me a bit of advice on what parts to choose and why?

I've heard of head gaskets made out of different materials etc.

I'm not listing off everything yet because I haven't chosen all the parts yet as I am still thinking what to add to the list.

The water pump and timing belt were replaced 10000 km ago so I won't be buying those now.

List:
1x Headgasket
2x Camshaft seals
12 x Valve stem seals / These had 2 options with inner hole of 7mm and 8mm?
Set of headbolts / Are there different kinds that are better for the head?

ngoma 04-21-2022 09:54 PM

Before you get too far ahead of your skis--- (do they say this in Finland? Seems appropriate :p)

Do you have the Volvo Special Tools for properly dealing with the crankshaft damper bolt (MOST important), timing the camshaft, and timing the IP?

That should be Number One on your list. Do not proceed without!

v8volvo 04-23-2022 12:18 PM

To add, for after you resolve the above-mentioned question about tools :cool:

If you are not replacing timing belts as part of this job then your list has most everything needed. Only exception might be a valve cover gasket if your engine does not already have the one-piece neoprene rubber reusable gasket. The 4-piece cork and rubber sets are single use only. The 1-piece gasket is far better so if you need to buy anything that is the one you want. As you are probably aware you'll also need intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, as well as 6 new of the injector heatshield sealing washers that you are very familiar with by this point. ;)

Good chance to install fresh glow plugs while access is easy -- at least replace #5 and #6 with new Bosch DuraTerm. The front 4 are relatively easy to change later if you want to save the expense. Fresh overflow hose for the injectors is always good too.

Valve stem seals: not sure but IIRC the D24 series engines only ever got valves with 8mm stem. Around the late 90s VWs 4cyl diesel engines changed from 8mm down to 7mm (weight reduction I think?). Not sure if that ever happened for the 6cyl line though. It is possible that 7mm valves and guides could be retrofitted during a cyl head rebuild so that might be the only reason. Probably only way to really be certain would be to take it apart and measure. But, OTOH the valve stem seals are not common for leakage on these and might not be worth changing unless you are going the full distance and having the head fully redone with new guides as well (those are the more common wear area). If you are planning to just clean it up and bolt it on then the effort of disassembling the valve train to change the stem seals might not be worth it.

Headgasket: there are MLS (stainless steel layered) headgaskets available for the D24 that are more durable than the original composition type. In an ideal world the MLS gaskets are preferable. Here in North America the MLS type are very hard to come by these days, as our only source for those here was Volvo dealers which have stopped offering them. But availability may not be a problem for you in Europe where there are aftermarket sellers of the same part (Reinz/Elring?). MLS gasket does require a higher standard of cleanliness and finish quality on the cylinder head and block surface, but that is achievable, just be aware of it.

Head studs for these engines are available (ARP and Raceware market them here, maybe others as well where you are) at fairly high cost. They provide more consistent clamping force and arguably increase potential for holding up under big power increases on turbo engines. Arguably easier to work with as well during installation/alignment of head to block. Combination of head studs and MLS gasket is probably the most robust setup of all and probably worthwhile for those who are pushing the limits.

That said, the regular old style composition type gaskets and TTY bolts seem to hold up very well for most of us on stock or lightly turned up engines, PROVIDED the cooling system is maintained in good shape and the engine is not overheated. Head gasket failures are rare except in engines where they are provoked by overheating. So if that is what is affordable and accessible for you, then you can use it with confidence and expect good results as long as other basic care is done. The MLS gasket possibly, and the studs almost definitely, would be unnecessary cost and overkill in a NA motor.

v8volvo 04-23-2022 12:26 PM

If your engine has mechanical valve lash adjustment (shim discs on top of solid lifters), don't forget about getting hands on the tools and parts for that as well. :)

The lash clearance should best be checked on a stone cold engine AFTER the head has been bolted on and torqued so as to put the head in its final installed position and stresses. Seems like when we try to adjust valves with the head on the bench prior to install, you always have to go back and do it again after torquing the head down since things shift around a little bit inevitably.

Jimarilo 09-14-2022 06:19 PM

Anyone know where to source (UK) the 6 mm cam cover studs ?? only need two or will just have to use two bolts

ngoma 09-15-2022 10:51 AM

If you can't obtain the shoulder studs you can use long allen-head set screws with threadlocker. You would lose the limit to gasket oversqueeze that the shoulders provide but some would consider that an improvement. Just have to be more careful to not overtorque the cover nuts.

v8volvo 09-15-2022 05:00 PM

The shoulders are pretty nice for torque limiting though. I do think gasket life could be shortened if it gets overtightened.

What about trying in a junkyard? There were a million different vw audi vehicles that used these exact same shouldered studs on the valve cover. Not just diesels, but gas engines, 4cyl, 5cyl, etc. Any old VW Transporter, Jetta, Golf, etc will probably have them.

If you can find a donor vehicle, might as well grab a handful so you have some spares. :)

BogfordGarage 09-15-2022 10:50 PM

The Volvo PN for the shoulder stud is 1328034 but a search for that didn't turn up anything readily available.
There is a VW rocker cover stud on Brickwerks but I'm not sure it is correct: https://brickwerks.co.uk/product/stu...2-0-aircooled/
Like v8Volvo said the best bet might be a breakers but it would be good to know the dimensions of a complete stud before searching.

Jimarilo 09-16-2022 05:27 AM

Thanks, as I only need two will probably use a couple of regular 6 mm studs and space them out on the right hand side of the head (highside)

So, I have ordered the green book, thanks again.

Thought I have done enough research to check and adjust the IP timing, but am wondering where I have gone wrong .....don't worry not adjusted anything yet

Have put my own TDC mark on the crankshaft pulley, corresponding to the V mark on the IP and the TDC mark on the flywheel firing on #1 (as per the loosening of the vacuum pump) Had to take the vp off in any case as the dial gauge extension is short

Having zero'd the dial on TDC and 1 on the small dial, on turning the engine round clockwise the dial turns 1.55 revs to just over 2.5 on the small dial

I was expecting just about 1 rev, what am I missing ???

The v on the IP looks slightly past the pump mark

I have released the grub screw to release the spacer on the cold start cable, leaving well alone the 10mm nut on the end. There was a fair degree of tension on the cable, so warmed up the front end of the unit where the two water hoses are connected with a light gas torch enough for the unit to warm up and release the tension and spacer

Jimarilo 09-16-2022 07:22 AM

Think I have now realised where am going wrong

Getting the dial gauge zero'd at TDC #1 ......I then only need to turn the engine until the maximum reading is showing and no more

The first reading this way was just around 45 and adjusting the pump I have managed up to 83. If I am going things correctly, it seems to me the belt could be a whole tooth out as I am running out of adjustment at the pump.

So either need to slip the belt off the cam pulley, which I have seen done and gain another tooth or crack the cam pulley nut and do it properly, which would require adapting some tools .......luckily I bought an old oil cooled arc welder yesterday

All good fun ;-)

BogfordGarage 09-16-2022 07:51 AM

Give this a quick watch. As the green book method is a touch confusing to me. This video really helped me. The guy doing the video is DieselScout on here is I remember correctly. https://youtu.be/T5FbB8n3f8g

BogfordGarage 09-16-2022 07:57 AM

Also for best results between 0.90 and 0.95 on the dial give the best results for running and cold starting in my experience. You can skip the video to where he's settings up the new pump if you don't want to watch the whole thing ;)

Jimarilo 09-16-2022 09:49 AM

Cheers have seen this before .........I wish he would talk a bit slower ;-)

Well I have never come across such and arse of an engine. Obviously I am trying to time the bleeding thing by adjusting the pump due to not having the sprocket tools, which should still work but not for me

The cold start lever seems to be very tight and is difficult to put the spacer back in place, as there is no slack. Will have another go tomorrow and put the IP back to where it was

Had an escort van once and swapped a lucas pump for a bosch and just turned the pump to what sounded good, took it for a drive and that was that

Tomorrow is another day ........

ngoma 09-16-2022 02:50 PM

Please excuse if I am misunderstanding your efforts, but from my viewpoint it sure looks like you are trying to apply common timetested mechaniking methods to time your IP. You appear to be a crack mechanic with many successful exploits under you belt (implementing best practices, etc.) but as you have cleverly realized, certain quirks of the D24 require require nonintuitive methods, seemingly contrary to mechanic best practices.

Yes the D24 with its German (over?)engineering heritage is a different beast.

The easiest method for timing the IP will appear to be counterintuitive to you and there will be multiple reasons to do workarounds and ignore the counterintuitive aspects, in order to conform to "mechaniking best practices" that have served well in the past.

Here are an example:
Mechanic common practice: Lock the IP pulley and rotate the IP to time it.
D24 easy method: Leave the IP where it is and rotate the (loosened) rear camshaft sprocket.

Have you seen this sticky?
https://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=1684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15554)
Have put my own TDC mark on the crankshaft pulley...

Not sure what utility this has but doubt it will be as precise as using the factory mark on the flywheel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15554)
If I am going things correctly, it seems to me the belt could be a whole tooth out as I am running out of adjustment at the pump.

So either need to slip the belt off the cam pulley, which I have seen done and gain another tooth or crack the cam pulley nut and do it properly, which would require adapting some tools

Yes get your hands on a sprocket tool (widely available, not expensive, there were some fairly recent links to sources, especially in your neck of the woods), so easy to manipulate it in one hand and tighten the nut with the other, then hand-crank the engine another revolution to TDC, read the dial gauge, see how close you got to your desired setting, repeat as necessary. TIP: possibly because of slack or slop in the system if you overshoot slightly (ex. aim for .95 you will probably end up near .90) it will result close to your desired setting.

I admit it was hard for me to understand the method at first but now can check/reset the timing in maybe an hour start to finish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15554)
The cold start lever seems to be very tight and is difficult to put the spacer back in place, as there is no slack. Will have another go tomorrow and put the IP back to where it was

The cold start lever can be near impossible to move unless the IP internals are rotating. (Seems like I wrote about this recently, maybe it wasn't you?)

Many of us have the IP case rotated outward from the marks, as a way to make R/R of the #5 and 6 GPs possible without removing the IP.

So my overall council for you is to overcome your (understandable)(you appear to be a competent mechanic) urge to do things the "old" way (which may have worked well many times before) and try this new method that seems like hokum but when you understand it, appears to be quite elegant in a way.

BogfordGarage 09-16-2022 10:28 PM

Here's a link to the gates holding tool https://m.autodoc.co.uk/gates/7433900 I have no experience using it as I made my own. I'll take a picture when I'm at the garage tomorrow if I remember. As far as the dogleg spanner goes for the pulley nut, I also made my own, but before doing so just used an open one end and slightly offset ring spanner (you know a normal spanner ;) ). Using the ring backwards to undo and do up the nut (hope you can visualize that). I feel at this point we should start a "get jimarlio's engine sorted" thread :D

Jimarilo 09-16-2022 11:30 PM

ngoma........thanks for your input it is much appreciated. However there is no need for the sarcasm, but if it makes you feel better, fill your boots

I have never stated I am a crack mechanic and I can assure you I am not, but I am not stupid either. I qualified in 1982 starting in 1979 working on Renault so all petrol, no diesel

By 1983 I stared in the building trade and have been there ever since retirement, with a 60th birthday coming up. I have always worked on my own cars and vans some were diesels and have changed many timing belts and chains

The two timing marks on the crankshaft pulley are my indicator in association with TDC on the flywheel and the ip v to acknowledge firing on number one as I had already said

The marks on the pulley are for my reference (so I am not 180 degrees out) and are not meant to be a precise measurement, as this can be found at the flywheel .....

Jimarilo 09-17-2022 12:31 AM

Thanks bog, will be interesting to see your pics now I have a welder ;-)

Jimarilo 09-17-2022 03:25 AM

So, finally the penny has dropped and I have the IP set at .98 and running much sweeter than before, I will drop it to .95 this afternoon to see how that works out Adjusting the IP does not take long once the penny drops ;-)

Tick over is up and feels much cleaner, changing gear and driving at low speed is much easier I did notice a little black smoke whilst parking, nothing worth worrying about, but dropping to .95 may dial that out, will soon see.

The reason for my confusion yesterday was not zeroing the dial gauge at the lowest point.

I might add that timing the pump by adjusting the rear camshaft pulley only is ok for the initial timing. Common sense says that is possible to shift the pulley whilst tightening the 19mm pulley bolt and therefore the finer adjustment can be made at the pump it's self. I mean why else did they bother to making the pump adjustable ;-))

BogfordGarage 09-17-2022 06:03 AM

Ideal! I couldn't quite work out from your description what you did wrong but I had a suspicion it was the zeroing part. Well done for working it out. I had a bit of a job to work it out the first time. The finer adjustment on the pump makes sense but as ngoma pointed out I like others have it set as far clockwise as possible for glow plug removal if necessary. It just means that its a bit of trial and error to get the right timing on just the pulley. (Nothing wrong with a wee bit of black smoke ;) )

Jimarilo 09-17-2022 10:52 AM

Indeed nothing wrong with a bit of black smoke, but it is MOT time next week LOL

So it took 30 mins to reset the IP and dial in .95. The result was a much quieter engine, no black smoke and is running really sweet, what a joy to drive this car is. Still can't get over how quick it turns round corners and has a brilliant turning circle, when maneuvering or parking

The issue I had with the cold start wire has resolved it's self, as the lever wouldn't pull all the way forward, the wire seemed to be stuck inside the housing, but is free now and a doddle to release and reassemble. Is a bit awkward when stuck as the AC canister was in the way.

The rear shocks are now on the list for things to do, not sure if they will pass the MOT, depends how generous the tester is. They are not leaking, but are giving more than a one and a half bounce when being tested.

The other thing I want to do is fit a turbo repair kit, which are really cheap, here are some item links I was sent for my T3 Garrett

Compressor wheel (standard cast and also upgraded billet alloy) - https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...090960014.html

- https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...ET3103PBC.html

Seal Plate - https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...962900013.html

Turbine Shaft - https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...513100003.html

Repair Kit - https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...-Cosworth.html

- https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...t-Bearing.html

Gasket Set - https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...EOT-VOLVO.html

Thanks for your help Bog, I look forward to seeing your pictures when you get time

BogfordGarage 09-17-2022 10:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Do you know what type of shocks are fitted to your rear end? I don't know if you know about the Nivomant self leveling ones? (I'll attach a picture of what they look like) Extremely expensive to replace and no longer available in most cases which is most un-helpful. I still have them on mine but I have replaced them in the past from breakers yards. It is however easy enough to retro fit standard shocks but the springs have to be swapped out as well, due to the Nivomant springs being softer than normal ones. With any luck if yours ever had them the previous owner already saved you the hassle. If you do have Nivos I would put it through the MOT and see what happens the bounce test doesn't really work for them as they work slightly differently to normal shocks.

As for the Turbo I'm not really a turbo expert but I'm sure a couple of the other lads on here would help if you needed it.

Also once you get your green book it'll tell you the pump adjustments so if it doesn't pass emissions in the MOT you can tune it so it will.
My name's Tristan BTW :D

Jimarilo 09-18-2022 08:10 AM

Thanks yet again for the heads up

I haven't taken a wheel off yet to look at anything, but will have a look before the MOT. Yes I will put her through and see what occurs first

A strange thing happened this morning coming home during a leisurely drive Slowed down to turn left at a junction and all of a sudden heard a loud top end tapping, sounded like a camshaft. I immediately pulled in and checked under the bonnet, checked the oil level etc, everything seemed ok. Started it again and revved up the engine a couple of times, still the same. Turned it off and wondered what my options were and decided to see if I could make it home. I started it up again and no noise, which makes me wonder if it had something to do with the vacuum pump and follower. I had to remove it to fit the short dial gauge extension when timing the pump

BogfordGarage 09-18-2022 10:05 PM

Apparently the Vacuum pumps can be responsible for a lot of noise when on their way out on these engines. I doubt you did something wrong. I did read somewhere if you take the diaphragm out and flip it round it can work to stop noise. But if it needs replacing make sure it's an original Pierburg branded one as the aftermarket ones can leak oil. If it happens again try the old solid bar or screwdriver test to narrow down where the noise is coming from.

Jimarilo 09-19-2022 06:48 AM

Have taken her out again and been no issues, running very well

I have read a few issues with the pump as well and think it worth changing anyway. It was a central noise which makes me even more convinced it was the V pump

Will look out for a Peirburg cheers !!

Jimarilo 09-20-2022 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogfordGarage (Post 15566)
Do you know what type of shocks are fitted to your rear end? I don't know if you know about the Nivomant self leveling ones? (I'll attach a picture of what they look like) Extremely expensive to replace and no longer available in most cases which is most un-helpful. I still have them on mine but I have replaced them in the past from breakers yards. It is however easy enough to retro fit standard shocks but the springs have to be swapped out as well, due to the Nivomant springs being softer than normal ones. With any luck if yours ever had them the previous owner already saved you the hassle. If you do have Nivos I would put it through the MOT and see what happens the bounce test doesn't really work for them as they work slightly differently to normal shocks.

As for the Turbo I'm not really a turbo expert but I'm sure a couple of the other lads on here would help if you needed it.

Also once you get your green book it'll tell you the pump adjustments so if it doesn't pass emissions in the MOT you can tune it so it will.
My name's Tristan BTW :D

Hi Tristan, Just had the wheels off for a quick gander pre-mot. Front has original volvo discs and pads. Pads could do with changing, no play in the wheel what so ever. The anti-roll bar linkage bushes are a bit cracked but still very strong, hopefully just an advisory at worst. Looks like possible replacement strut inserts and defiantly springs have been changed.

Rear end, looks very much like your Nivomant shockers are fitted, springs don't look very old either. The brake discs are a little rusty on the inner and out edge as is quite regular with rear discs, particularly if not used hard. If I can get some tomorrow I will change them, if not, will change the pads.

The previous owner was a doctor and had the car from new, every service was at a Volvo garage. Every advisory seems to have been rectified correctly. The brake pipes are original steel pipes.

This car doesn't stop surprising me ;-)

BogfordGarage 09-20-2022 10:39 PM

Sounds like most of it is up together which is great news. I wouldn't worry about the Nivomats (just realised I spelt it wrong in the last post) as they are very good shocks it's just a shame they are so expensive when they go wrong. Hopefully the MOT goes smoothly, let me know how you get on with it. Funnily enough my 940 D24 was also owned by a doctor and although he had it well maintained, he didn't know much about cars :)

Jimarilo 09-21-2022 12:31 AM

I just clicked on your name rather than thread and came up your profile

Aircraft engineer ........I once did a month at Blackbush, pretty much making tea and did a bit of spray painting on spitfires, while I was suspended from my normal job for a month (16yrs old) ;-)

Yes the car does seem very much up together, the bodywork and interior are faultless .......off to get the parts including the disc's have to trundle 80 mile round trip to Inverness to get them today, MOT tomorrow

v8volvo 09-29-2022 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15567)
A strange thing happened this morning coming home during a leisurely drive Slowed down to turn left at a junction and all of a sudden heard a loud top end tapping, sounded like a camshaft. I immediately pulled in and checked under the bonnet, checked the oil level etc, everything seemed ok. Started it again and revved up the engine a couple of times, still the same. Turned it off and wondered what my options were and decided to see if I could make it home. I started it up again and no noise, which makes me wonder if it had something to do with the vacuum pump and follower. I had to remove it to fit the short dial gauge extension when timing the pump

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogfordGarage (Post 15570)
Apparently the Vacuum pumps can be responsible for a lot of noise when on their way out on these engines. I doubt you did something wrong. I did read somewhere if you take the diaphragm out and flip it round it can work to stop noise. But if it needs replacing make sure it's an original Pierburg branded one as the aftermarket ones can leak oil. If it happens again try the old solid bar or screwdriver test to narrow down where the noise is coming from.

Yes agreed, very common to see this kind of noise from the vac pump, and it is often intermittent also as you described. I have never been too sure of what exactly goes wrong with them but I think either a check valve sticks or the return spring gets weak... either way it can let a clearance open up between the cam and pushrod resulting in a tapping noise. You can confirm it by running the engine with the vac pump pushrod removed. But it sounds like you are already all figured out on that. :cool:

v8volvo 09-29-2022 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15565)
So it took 30 mins to reset the IP and dial in .95. The result was a much quieter engine, no black smoke and is running really sweet, what a joy to drive this car is. Still can't get over how quick it turns round corners and has a brilliant turning circle, when maneuvering or parking

....

The other thing I want to do is fit a turbo repair kit, which are really cheap, here are some item links I was sent for my T3 Garrett

So pleasing to hear this good outcome, very nicely done :D:D

Sounds like a timing adjustment was what the doctor ordered. Very typical with these engines to find it has been driving around for years with improperly timed IP, because, as you have seen, the timing procedure is pretty logical once you have a feel for it.... BUT, many professional mechanics do not take the time to comprehend what is going on and thus it is common for timing to be set incorrectly after a cambelt change. This was a frequent occurrence even from Volvo dealers doing work on them back when the cars were new, and unfortunately sabotaged many otherwise good engines. But it's corrected easily enough and they sure do run differently when everything is dialed in as it should be. :cool:

As for the turbo -- certainly a refresh is never a bad thing, but, turbochargers are something we find virtually never need attention on this engine. As a rule they pretty much just don't fail except if some external material damages them. So unless you see evidence yours has some kind of issue, or you just want to do it for fun, it may save you a little time and money to skip any efforts on that particular area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimarilo (Post 15563)
I might add that timing the pump by adjusting the rear camshaft pulley only is ok for the initial timing. Common sense says that is possible to shift the pulley whilst tightening the 19mm pulley bolt and therefore the finer adjustment can be made at the pump it's self. I mean why else did they bother to making the pump adjustable ;-))

This is a valid point. The method of rotating rear cam sprocket for timing does require some trial and error to get to the desired setting, as it's hard to make fine adjustments. You can hold the pulley pretty secure with the counterhold tool while tightening that bolt, but yes it's all too easy for it to move just enough for it to throw the timing setting off and require another attempt. Many of us still prefer taking a few tries with the cam sprocket rather than fighting with the four IP bolts and the 12 fuel line connections, but, both ways certainly do work, so it's a matter of preference, to each his own.

They made the pump adjustable too because.... it's German! Why only give us one way to do it, when they could create confusion by offering two paths to the same destination? :D In all honesty though, as you pointed out, each method has its own upsides/downsides so it is sometimes convenient to be able to choose one or the other.

Sounds like a very nice car that is coming together well, kudos on the updates. We never saw the diesel model Volvos past 1986 here in the US so are always envious to hear about the improved 1990s era diesels on your side of the pond.


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